Salumi Casalinghi Forum - il Forum dei Salumi fatti in Casa e della Norcineria Sperimentale

Salumi Casalinghi Forum - il Forum dei Salumi fatti in Casa e della Norcineria Sperimentale
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greedylittlepig
Utente


Stato: United Kingdom
Reg.: west yorkshire
Cittā: huddersfield


4 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 13:31:23  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Hi everyone,
I have recently engaged in the art of drying sausages and meats and found your forum site whilst Google around. Looks great and have now signed up, if there are any English people within the forum i would like to hear from you?
I would like to ask a question relating to air flow, it seems that most people use a cellar to dry the product, to my mind this is not an area with good air flow! maybe someone can help?
Happy Xmas to everybody.
greedylittlepig

Jasonmolinari
MODERATORE Sezione Internazionale


Stato: USA
Prov.: GA
Cittā: Atlanta


617 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 13:33:22  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Welcome greedylittlepig. There are some english speakers, but i think you'll find the great majority do not speak it.

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Alessandro
Amministratore


Stato: Italy
Prov.: Asti
Cittā: Asti


1512 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 14:23:58  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Welcome greedylittlepig.
Jason missed to say that if we'll not be able to understand/explain something...he's our official translator

cheers

Alessandro Morreale
Amministratore
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greedylittlepig
Utente


Stato: United Kingdom
Prov.: west yorkshire
Cittā: huddersfield


4 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 14:27:08  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
quote:
Originally posted by greedylittlepig

Hi everyone,
I have recently engaged in the art of drying sausages and meats and found your forum site whilst Google around. Looks great and have now signed up, if there are any English people within the forum i would like to hear from you?
I would like to ask a question relating to air flow, it seems that most people use a cellar to dry the product, to my mind this is not an area with good air flow! maybe someone can help?
Happy Xmas to everybody.
greedylittlepig

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greedylittlepig
Utente


Stato: United Kingdom
Prov.: west yorkshire
Cittā: huddersfield


4 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 14:28:17  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Thanks Jason and Allesandro,
Can you explain my first question?
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Alessandro
Amministratore


Stato: Italy
Prov.: Asti
Cittā: Asti


1512 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 14:42:19  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
This topic is too wide and I think we need Jason's help
I start saying that everyone of us uses it's own technichs, depending of weather conditions, location, meat, environment conditions.
I use to dry my products in a mixed mode, moving from my cellar to a modified refrigerator and vice-versa: it depends of humidity and temperature I need. However if you have a good cellar, it should be the best way for drying and it should be interesting and better to know your working conditions before give you an advice

Sorry for my english...

Alessandro Morreale
Amministratore
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Jasonmolinari
MODERATORE Sezione Internazionale


Stato: USA
Prov.: GA
Cittā: Atlanta


617 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 15:07:12  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
greedy: i agree in theory having some airflow would be a good idea, but we all make do with what we have. I get "airflow" by opening my curing chamber a couple of times per week. Some people put external fans that draw air in on timers....

I don't know enough to comment on what effects having additional airflow would have on the product.

Seems that Ale speaks better english than i do...so i'll let him translate:)

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greedylittlepig
Utente


Stato: United Kingdom
Prov.: west yorkshire
Cittā: huddersfield


4 Messaggi

Inserito il - 20 dic 2011 : 15:24:45  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Thanks again guys,
I am currently drying my products in a barn, the temperature is a little on the cool side 5'c but still having good results.
My RH is around 80-85.
Please do not apologise for your English as it is great. Far better than my Italian.
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Alessandro
Amministratore


Stato: Italy
Prov.: Asti
Cittā: Asti


1512 Messaggi

Inserito il - 21 dic 2011 : 10:31:17  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
I think many peoples in this forum wish have your drying conditions about humidity and temperature
I Agree with Jason about air flow and I think you don't need for a continuous flow and sometimes it should be enough keep the door opened for few time in order to "move the air"



Alessandro Morreale
Amministratore
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story28
Utente


Stato: USA
Prov.: District of Columbia
Cittā: Washington


2 Messaggi

Inserito il - 22 dic 2011 : 15:41:52  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Hello. I am new, but I can help. The ideal airspeed necessary for drying sausages depends on which stage the product is in. Early on in the drying stage, the product needs a higher amount of airspeed than later on. As the drying progresses, the IDEAL situation is to be able to lessen the airspeed as the product begins to emit less and less moisture. If the airspeed is too strong for a prolonged period of time, the sausage will dry on on the outside and prevent moisture from escaping from within. If the airspeed is too slow for a prolonged period of time, the sausage will become slimy on the surface and will inhibit moisture removal.

During the initial fermentation/drying stage, airspeed should be near 0.8-1.0 m/sec or 3.6km/h. A potentiometer is a machine that can be purchased to provide adjustable conditions of airspeed. However, it is important to measure airspeed from the appropriate place(s) to ensure that you are getting even air flow.

I apologize for not speaking Italian.
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Paolo Esse
AMMINISTRATORE



Stato: Italy
Prov.: Torino
Cittā: Torino - Genova


1869 Messaggi

Inserito il - 22 dic 2011 : 22:18:23  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
quote:
Originally posted by story28

Hello.


Welcome, Three Little Pigs

Paolo Sossai - SITE ADMIN

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story28
Utente


Stato: USA
Prov.: District of Columbia
Cittā: Washington


2 Messaggi

Inserito il - 16 gen 2012 : 18:22:45  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
quote:

Welcome, Three Little Pigs



Thank you very much for the warm reception. I am really looking forward to learning from this site. I haven't had the most amount of time to spend on it, but it looks like a great resource for traditional Italian methods and recipes for salumi!

I apologize for not speaking Italian.
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Vincenza
MODERATORE Sezione Internazionale


Stato: Germany
Prov.: Nordrhein-Westfalen
Cittā: Düsseldorf


162 Messaggi

Inserito il - 18 gen 2012 : 04:00:20  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Hi to everybody and welcome to greedylittlepig and to story 28! Since I cannot unfortunately rely on my cellar, I use to keep my production (cheese and bresaola or capocollo)in my simple as well as ordinary ventilated fridge in the kitchen. On considering that, I prefer adopting as fewer additions as possible, I actually prefer this solution and am really satisfied with the resultants. I keep the size of sausages under two kilos and the maturation period within two months for the aforewritten reasons.
Viel Spaß & Ciao!

Vincenza
Moderatrice Sezione Internazionale
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namarena
Utente


Stato: USA
Prov.: California
Cittā: San Carlos


6 Messaggi

Inserito il - 27 gen 2012 : 00:08:05  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
In a previous message, Story28 indicated the appropriate speed for aging. I am new and at the same time old at this new hobby (used to help my dad when I was a kid: the old; and now want to do it myself: the new), so I would like to start right. I have access to a fairly new, medium size refrigerator which I can modify to my liking easily (I am a mechanical engineer, so mods are not a problem) with precise thermostat and hydrostat, fresh air blowers and/or circulators, water fog mister for humidity control and adjustments and heating elements to compensate for too much humidity.

Having said that, I lack the actual specifications of temperature ranges, humidity ranges and flow ranges. What I mean by ranges is lowest and highest adjustable range on each control so I can have a versatile fermentation and/or aging unit. Does anyone in the (italian, spanish or english language is O.K.) forum has good information on the figures I am looking for?

Earlier in another post, I had asked for english names to the various italian cuts and Jason has submitted a nice list already. My next problem will be the casings. In the USA most of them are non-existent for do-it-yourself 'salumi' makers. If any of my compatriots in the USA knows where to get the casings, I'd appreciate the info.

Regards,

Nino Amarena
San Francisco

Nino Amarena
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Jasonmolinari
MODERATORE Sezione Internazionale


Stato: USA
Prov.: GA
Cittā: Atlanta


617 Messaggi

Inserito il - 27 gen 2012 : 02:39:59  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
nino, for casings, start at butcher-packer.com they have just about every casing you need.

For temperature/humidity, target about 53-58 deg. F and about 70-80% RH.

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namarena
Utente


Stato: USA
Prov.: California
Cittā: San Carlos


6 Messaggi

Inserito il - 27 gen 2012 : 19:12:54  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Jason: thanks again, you are a wealth of information! As far as air flow and circulation; from my experience dehydrating meats and fruits, fresh air flow versus stagnant air circulation plays a role in the drying process as well as flavor. It is well known that if drying too fast can cause 'case hardening' preventing internal moisture to continue exiting at a known rate and hence providing an environment for spoilage. Drying too slow and the moisture hangs around on the exterior producing slimy products.

This is well controlled by fresh air flow. However if the flow is all fresh air, some of the natural 'flavor' molds would exit with the air and slow their reproduction, so some amount of 'recirculation' air is sometimes needed to also maintaining the proper moisture level.

Now, I am mostly extrapolating these facts from my experience in poultry farming incubators, of which I was a designer and fabricator in my past life. With these, moisture and air circulation/fresh intake was always an issue in order to maintain a balance between temperature, moisture and quality of birth rate.

In your experience, is the temperature and humidity control the only two parameters that dictate a proper curing/aging of salumi? Is the air flow/circulation only used to maintain the humidity in check?

I am asking this because there are other methods of maintaining humidity that does not rely on fresh air exchange (condensation technique), hence rendering the whole process of aging an 'hermetic' one without exposing the meats to external air and its pollutants, which carry spores of molds beneficial and bad ones as well.

Sorry for the long dissertation, but I thought you guys are the right ones to ask this imponderable that has been bugging me for years.

Nino Amarena

Nino Amarena
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Jasonmolinari
MODERATORE Sezione Internazionale


Stato: USA
Prov.: GA
Cittā: Atlanta


617 Messaggi

Inserito il - 27 feb 2012 : 22:56:15  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Nino, sorry for missing this question!
I believe fresh air is important to the process to avoid stagnation...but i have no real scientific basis for that other than all the traditional meats calling for fresh air. I open my curing chamber every day or 2 to get some air exchange.

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namarena
Utente


Stato: USA
Prov.: California
Cittā: San Carlos


6 Messaggi

Inserito il - 10 mar 2012 : 01:33:39  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
Hello All: In my February 27 post, I stated if there was a way to control the humidity up or down in an hermetic way without introducing external bacteria, spores of molds and any other undesirable air contaminant.

After doing an in-depth research in the industrial and scientific processing of air, the true meaning of 'air conditioning' or the "adjustment of air quality by temperature and moisture", I found a way to do the control of air quality, temperature and moisture in a closed loop (hermetic) manner.

This requires the use of an external air circulation, which can be accomplished with household refrigerators without much problem. The refrigerators can be of the frost-free or non-frost-free type.

I am in the last phase of construction of a small prototype system to be installed on a 4.5 cu. ft. fridge made by Sears/Kenmore. This unit is a non-frost-free type. The system will have capabilities to cool or warm the environment inside the fridge from 40 to 75 def F, adjust humidity from 30 to 90%RH and condition the air with warmers, continuous air circulation and activated charcoal filters to present a constant flow, temperature and humidity to the salumi/charcuterie being cured.

For reasons obvious to my endeavour, I called this product/project the "Virtual Curing Cave" or VCC for short. I plan to test it throughout its range and hopefully have a version available to all of you charcuterie lovers of the world. I expect to have either a kit or complete assembled unit available to anyone who wants to build one or pending some research the plans-only to build one from scratch.

I will keep you posted of the developments as they progress from stage to stage.

Thanks,

Nino Amarena

Nino Amarena
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Jasonmolinari
MODERATORE Sezione Internazionale


Stato: USA
Prov.: GA
Cittā: Atlanta


617 Messaggi

Inserito il - 10 mar 2012 : 21:12:28  Mostra Profilo  Rispondi Quotando
that sounds pretty awesome! looking forward to it!

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